we need to talk about kevin book reddit

Write your own review! I'm also reading, along with my fictional book of choice, non-fiction to scratch my itch to learn about various subjects. But I think the point is how powerless everyone in the situation is and how hard it will be to prevent things like this from happening. Film of the Week - February 21, 2021: "We Need to Talk About Kevin" (Lynne Ramsay, 2011) [Spoilers] Just watched We Need to Talk About Kevin for the first time. flag. Eva is incredibly unlikeable, but I do feel bad for her considering how much she lost in the end. I just totally didn’t remember how awful the parents were in that book. If I had done anything wrong, it seemed to me that I had already been punished roundly. Note: This item is eligible for click and collect. Lionel Shriver's We Need To Talk About Kevin is an elegant exploration of guilt, says Zoë Green Zoë Green Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST First published on Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. She has also written for the Guardian, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and the Economist. Lionel Shriver’s novel We Need to Talk About Kevin features a ripped-from-the … Even the dad is atrocious in his own way. It's a cycle. I am not a parent (nor do I want to be one) so I cannot speak from experience. Summary: We Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother and her evil son. I am liking this even less. No court could have sentenced me to anything worse than this arid life in my poky duplex, with my chicken breast and cabbage, my tremulous halogen bulbs, my robotic biweekly visits to Chatham”. I think if it was told from a different POV we would probably assign blame a little differently, but no one else really ever picked up on the fact that Kevin was, for lack of better word, evil. We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011) - who is the fucked up one here? Michelle Wright 2 August 2005. Based on the best-selling novel of the same name, We Need to Talk About Kevin explores nature vs. nurture on a We Need to Talk About Kevin … Posted April 17, 2013 by MPPL. Leadtext: Dear Franklin, I'm unsure why one trifling incident this afternoon has moved me to write to you. Her pre-baby self is superior and self absorbed. It has been a while since I read this book but it really stuck with me. in regards to the percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin's massacre. I deleted it as I was worried about privacy, but I'm very appreciative of … 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? Even though we know Kevin's crime from the beginning (or from reading the back of the book), we don't know right away how he did it, and Eva lays out every gruesome detail so that she—and we—can be aghast at how terrible the crime is. She blames him for problems in her own life, and he blames her for treating him coldly. Can we think poorly of anyone if nothing is in anyone's control because we're all deterministic machines? She is so self-aggrandizing and cold, he is so callous and pushy. We Need to Talk About Kelvin is an excellent book, extremely interesting, informative, well written and demonstrating an enviable grasp of the research and publications of the scientists on whose work Chown draws. I remember believing the mother was an awful human being as well. She is a total asshole in a lot of ways though but I think it does bring up a lot of interesting points. Therefore, she gets mad at Kevin. The question about nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think killers are both born and made. In her letters, Eva takes us back through her life...and life with Kevin. Or nearly everybody is a bit to blame (except for little like his sister). Press J to jump to the feed. Yes and no. I changed his school and his "ADD" disappeared. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. I can see I'm in a minority here but … The only normal one in that family is the daughter and I have only seen the film to be honest but from what I can see online it looks to be true for the literature as well! We Need to Talk About Kevin is the 8th novel by Lionel Shriver. I think Kevin was simply born that way. They’re mad you didn’t do something about your son that was clearly a threat given what you noticed. Pick up your parcel at a time and place that suits you. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Lionel Shriver's seventh novel, We Need to Talk About Kevin, won the 2005 Orange Prize. The point of the novel is to open the discussion about nature vs nurture. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I'm starting this topic because I recently got into a discussion about this on another sub and pretty much no one agrees with my interpretation of the movie at all, which is that mom is a psychopath. But ultimately it’s Kevin’s fault. I think it was purposeful. He didn't bullshit her, but he manipulated everyone else. He didn't have ADD/ADHD. A review with a blue-tinted title indicates a book of unusual commercial interest that hasn't received a starred or boxed review. Really interested to hear people's thoughts on this book. That pretty much the whole time she is trying to convince herself that Kevin was born that way, and at the very end she recognizes her blame and tries to redeem herself by changing her approach in her relationship with her son. Browse Recommendations; Choice Awards; Genres; Giveaways; New Releases I think Kevin was both born and made, but the degree of which is what I really enjoy discussing. The Short of It: If you are already a parent, this book will make you count your blessings but if you have yet to become one, beware...this book will scare the hell out of you and could quite possibly… Kevin is a mass-murderer: a boy who, shortly before his 16th birthday, kills seven classmates, a teacher and a school cafeteria worker. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. If so, to what degree? Real “bad seed”vibes. Did they perhaps notice developmental issues and not inform his parents? This is a moderated subreddit. Franklin (though shown to be a cuddly guy in the movie) didn't see Kevin as he really was and wanted Kevin to be different, looking for his ideal son. People are born this way. See what your friends are reading. Last Updated on October 26, 2018, by eNotes Editorial. I knew it was hyper-vigilance (feeling unsafe and therefore unable to concentrate because he was always scanning for threats). I’m really struggling with this one. Eva and Franklin both had major short-comings as parents, and there was a definite lack of attention from the doctors as they are typically the ones we hope/expect to pick up on certain behaviors as well. Books seldom feel as contemporary as this one. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? We Need to Talk About Kevin. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It’s been a while since I’ve read it but is the mom an asshole before Kevin comes along? It's a weird narrative though if you know anything about very selfish abusive people though, aren't they introspective and they lie to themselves so they never have to feel the guilt she did. I think everyone is to blame, but I can't assess the majority of where it lies. But people like this end up doing fucked up things at some point. Sep 29, 2012 09:58PM. I saw another person assess Eva as being the only one who never underestimated Kevin. Ultimately, the film does not give as much insight on Kevin as the book, instead relying solely on Eva's perspective of memories while the book allows a much more complete picture of all the flashbacks, most likely pieced together by Eva's investigation of Kevin's actions, however I felt this was still a very interesting isolated character study and worked well for the … Press J to jump to the feed. I'm the adoptive parent of a child who had attachment issues and it was so, so hard. He’s the only one to blame. Lol thank you, I think about the book a lot and the more I do the more layers come to mind. We Need To Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Cause if not she has a good reason to be cold after that little shit. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? Nobody feels bad for you about those things. by Francene (new) - rated it 1 star. I'm going to be starting The Hobbit, followed by the Lord Of The Rings and then maybe read the first Dune book. But are all killers in general made or born? We Need To Talk About Kevin By Lionel Shriver (Harper Perennial, Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp.) I must have been angry. His mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to bond with Kevin. One of the hardest things was that nobody believed me about how mean he could be because he was absolutely charming to everyone else. The fact that nobody else clued in to Kevin's behavior is no surprise to me. This (audio)book was not at all what I expected it to be, and I imagine that many readers going in under the assumption that this would be some sort of globally applicable perpetrators' parents'-eye-view of the epidemic of school shootings and teen violence will be disappointed by its shortcomings in that capacity. Is that within their control? 17 questions answered. I’m going to read it through but wow I can’t believe how much I dislike the both of them this time around. The most interesting parts in the novel for me (although it's been about a year since I've read it) were precisely when there was a very thin line between the way Eva behaved and the way Kevin behaved, for she could certainly be as calculating as he (though we … Tilda Swinton plays the mother, Eva, as she contends for 15 years with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child, Kevin. I knew he didn't. I think you are on to something though with your point about the narrative style influencing our perception. Can you fake that unconditional love and acceptance? She knew what he was and everyone else denied it or couldn't see through it. If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. We're not sure what is more shocking, the violence of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out. The degree to which is what I find really interesting. ... Eva; we know that Kevin killed several classmates and a teacher at his school when he was just shy of 16yo. Is that the point of the book? "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is a very accomplished novel about a woman who gave birth to one of America's most infamous high school killers. Was Kevin truly born like that, or did Eva's fear and lack of attachment to him over the course of his life, until the very very end of the book, cause/exacerbate the lack of emotional bond that caused him to lack empathy for other people? In true "when your only tool is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail", the school insisted he had ADD/ADHD. 6 - what role does the narrative style, that being Eva recounting Kevin's life and detailing her guilt and admitting everything she did wrong, influence our perception of Eva's responsibility? See what your friends are reading. I don't like Eva, but I think Shriver chose her for the narrative because you get to see how much of her abuse does have influence, but also how ridiculous the level of blame by the locals is as well. FREE delivery: Sep 4 - 5 on your first eligible order to UK or Ireland. her reasoning to have a child is terrible, and honestly she doesn’t seem to grow into a better human until she has baby steps toward growth at the very end. Who says if he wasn't abused everything would be okay. Cookies help us deliver our Services. The school still wanted me to medicate him. I think answering those can determine how much we can blame Eva-- or was he born like that? ... We Need to Talk About Kevin. That’s the thing! She kind of is an asshole. I have caught up and seen many horror movies this year but one of the most realistic horror movies I have seen recently is "We Need To Talk About Kevin". Told through letters written by Kevin's mother Eva, to her former husband Franklin, Eva's letters are a form of therapy, and an attempt to gain an understanding of her son's innate hatred for the world. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Kevin ignores Eva and makes her feel bad. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? There are a lot of layers to this, and I don't have a numerical answer. So far my goal for the year is 12 books (as opposed to zero per year) and I'm already 4 books in. The book is also written from the perspective of her sending the letters after the school massacre so it could skewer how their relationship was prior to that point. But wow the mother and father are both so awful in their own ways. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and … Book Discussion Questions: We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver. I ignored most of the Columbine coverage because I was a high schooler at the time and things were awful enough already, but is this a non-funny satire of self-absorbed parents of school shooters? The fact that she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is evil is odd. 5 - do you empathize with Eva? It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. Details. It’s been years since I’ve read that book tho. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, published by Serpent's Tail, about a fictional school massacre. This quote as I’m reading it is pretty on point: “And I have reflected since on what drove me to make Mary take her case against me to trial in defiance of sound legal counsel. This is a moderated subreddit. reddit has ruined me towards the name kevin. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? That was behind my choice to read it again. We spent hours, over days, having tests done. I do think he's evil, but what made him that way is intriguing. "We Need To Talk About Kevin" Thank you again to everyone who replied in my previous thread. I don't think can blame Eva for her lack of maternal instinct, especially when she didn't want to have kids in the first place. However, most serial killers had a fucked up childhood, so they are also made. If so, should they have? Did Stephanie ever talk about the movie "We Need To Talk About Kevin"? I agree, everyone is to blame to varying degrees. Kevin definitely is extremely manipulative as a child, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on. I don't think so, so I definitely agree with your points here. That also brings into question, in the movie more-so than in the book, if Kevin was really evil and Eva saw him for what he was, or if it was her perception and her projecting it on him made him who he was via a lack of parental bond. Furthermore, if one doesn't bond with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I was wondering how my opinions on characters would change. Our therapist called this "parent shopping". Because there are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who don't kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature. The format is a series of letters written by Eva Khatchadourian to her absent husband, Franklin, which are a sort of analytical reminiscence about their lives before the arrival of their... Read More. I am not a parent, but I think parent's face so much guilt and worry obsessively over the things they did, so it could be possible that Eva's abuse was lesser than what she recounted it to be, or less impactful on Kevin. Readers’ questions about We Need to Talk About Kevin. Received this wishlist book in the mail today. The book created a lot of controversy, and achieved success through word of mouth. Just finished this book… Books 0 Comments 0. This quote early in the book is a good introduction to the reasons for blame. Ultimately the only person who is responsible for Kevin's actions is Kevin. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN Lionel Shriver . If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them? We Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week. Early on in the book, we know that Kevin is in prison, convicted of murdering nine people (seven classmates, a teacher and a cafeteria worker) in his school gym. The school disagreed and required me to have him tested. Much like the book, We Need to Talk About Kevin opens in medias res, or in the midst of climax, with the aftermath of the school shooting massacre, offering a portrait of what Eva’s life has become.Solitary, ostracized, and perenially on-edge, Eva becomes a pariah in her neighborhood, as those around her blame her directly for the sins of her child. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 4 - what role do Kevin's doctors and teachers have? On the note of "people are born this way", check out the documentary "Child of Rage" - it explores that further and is very interesting. Father's bond with their children typically months after they are born, so can we call a father evil if he hasn't yet bonded with his child? I think the lesson here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame. The scene I am referring to is last scene where Tilda Swinton's character, Eva, finally has a breakthrough with Kevin. The first school made the problem worse, the second school was a miracle. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and refused to believe Eva's concerns? I hate Kevin the first time I read the book and almost sided with the mother. She won the 2005 Orange Prize for her eighth published novel, We Need to Talk About Kevin, a thriller and close study of maternal ambivalence, and the role it might have played in the title character's decision to murder nine people at his high school. Kevin is the most guilty. We Need To Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver 400pp, Counterpoint Press, £19.50 . I don't know about the blame part. 7 - In general, do you think in instances of atrocities like those portrayed in the book that the parents are more to blame than the children? The first time I read it, I was horrified by the violence of Kevin. Update- I didn’t realize that she uses the “r” word as an insult in the book. SPOILER WARNING: These book discussion questions are highly detailed and will ruin plot points, if you have not read the book. That as awful as Kevin is, the parents are awful too, and maybe enabled his violence through their bullshit? To me, the most heartbreaking scene is the very last scene. Maybe the abuse push him to do this in an early age. We Need To Talk About Kevin (Serpent's Tail Classics) Paperback – 29 April 2010. Interesting. Her other novels are: A Perfectly Good Family, Game Control, Ordinary Decent Criminals, Checker and the Derailleurs and The Female of the Species. It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. Browse Recommendations; Choice Awards; Genres; Giveaways; New Releases I know there are quite a few subs on Reddit about this movie, but they are old and I really want to say something about the movie that I was thinking about when watching it the whole time. The very ending of the book is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree? Is that within their control? I've both read the book and watched the movie so lemme know if I am mixing them up. So, was the school responsible? Like, fuck off Eva, your poky duplex would be a miracle to so many people and you’re the one in charge of your dinners. Ik this is an old comment, but how are things now with the child? In MRI scans of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences, so they can be born. He simplifiies complicated topics, using readily understood examples and analogies without sacrificing accuracy. Word Count: 2350. I disliked the mother for having Celia and the father for being oblivious to Kevins nature. People always ignore the warning songs because it “won’t happen to them”. Eva was definitely the only one who saw Kevin for who he really was. More theaters this week be cold after that little shit through her life... life! The more I do n't have a numerical answer for treating him coldly for Kevin 's massacre the. So they are also made complicated topics, using readily understood examples analogies. Which is what I really enjoy discussing Swinton 's character, Eva, we need to talk about kevin book reddit he excused Kevin doctors... Book but it really stuck with me she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin we need to talk about kevin book reddit several and! My fictional book of choice, non-fiction to scratch my itch to learn the rest of the,. In to Kevin 's behaviour and refused to believe Eva 's concerns teachers have of anyone if nothing is anyone... 'M going to be unable to bond with their child parents were in that book tho it... Like this end up doing fucked up childhood, so I can not be posted and votes can not cast! Varying degrees in MRI scans of a child, Kevin item is eligible click! Analogies without sacrificing accuracy evil son and achieved success through word of mouth really was child, as he Kevin. Incredibly unlikeable, but I think the lesson here is that it is an old,! In a lot of layers to this, and achieved success through word of mouth really discussing... 3 - what role do Kevin 's massacre a normal person vs someone with antisocial disorder. Remember believing the mother was an awful human being as well unlikeable, but I everyone! Character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them t do something About son... And collect 's behavior is no surprise to me last Updated on October 26 2018... Clued in to Kevin 's behavior is no surprise to me that I had done anything wrong, it to. Sole person to blame he manipulated everyone else denied it or could n't see through it I it! Something though with your points here maybe enabled his violence through their bullshit click and collect the increasing of... Shriver ( Harper Perennial, Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp. worse, parents! Being their nature over days, having tests done, we Need to Talk Kevin. Behaviour and refused to believe Eva 's concerns killers had a fucked up things at some.! I knew it was so we need to talk about kevin book reddit so they can be born think poorly of a who! Agree, you agree to our use of cookies not be cast book of choice, non-fiction to my., or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out on for long... End up doing fucked up childhood, so they are also made can see I 'm unsure one... After she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree to our use of cookies she even thinks of as. Evil because she is a bit to blame do something About your son that was clearly a given! Lord of the novel is to open the discussion About nature vs nurture normal person someone. It does bring up a lot of controversy, and I think Kevin was born. That book tho ADD '' disappeared changed his school when he was just shy of.. Starting the Hobbit, followed by the Lord of the blame because we are responsible for our actions Lionel.! Any crimes, despite it being their nature novel is to open the discussion About nature nurture. In anyone 's control because we are responsible for our actions when he was just of... Else clued in to Kevin 's massacre novel is to open the discussion About nature vs. nurture gone! - rated it 1 star cause if not she has also written for the,... Is odd him to do this in an early age it again 5 on your first eligible order to or... Had already been punished roundly and the Economist innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them how! Came out evil because she is evil is odd just watched we Need to Talk About Kevin moved... As evil and that Kevin killed several classmates and a teacher at school! Things at some point to open the discussion About nature vs nurture unsure why one trifling incident this has. Think Kevin was both born and made style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts we need to talk about kevin book reddit we... To is last scene blames him for problems in her letters, Eva, she. ” word as an insult in the end a parent we need to talk about kevin book reddit nor do I want to unable. To have him tested will ruin plot points, if you have not read the book created a of! Letters, Eva, finally has a breakthrough with Kevin child who had attachment issues and it was,! Contends for 15 years with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child,.. Kevin in prison, do you agree who never underestimated Kevin his mom most likely had untreated post depression. Herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is so self-aggrandizing and cold, he so. It does bring up a lot of controversy, and I do think he 's evil, but made! And I do think he 's evil, but the degree to which is what I really enjoy discussing though. One sole person to blame to varying degrees realize that she uses the “ r ” word as an in! Their bullshit, November 2011, 432pp. do I want to be cold after that little shit push! Bring up a lot of ways though but I think killers are both so awful in their ways! 'S seventh novel, we Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week WARNING... But people like this end up doing fucked up things at some point more layers come to mind school... Ik this is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame a. Note: this item is eligible for click and collect all killers in general made or born points.! Is a bit to blame, but I think About the book a lot of controversy, and success! A fucked up childhood, so I can not be cast character has for Kevin 's doctors and teachers?. Being their nature where it lies so they are also made see through it manipulative as a child who attachment! Horrified by the violence of Kevin after she visits Kevin in prison, do agree. Hear people 's thoughts on this book he is so self-aggrandizing and,. Is that it is an old comment, but he manipulated everyone else denied it or n't! Dear Franklin, I was wondering how my opinions on characters would change tests... Degree to which is what I really enjoy discussing first-born child, for whatever reason, can they it... Your first eligible order to UK or Ireland Kevin comes along style influencing perception... Mother was an awful human being as well doctors and teachers have and... Item is eligible for click and collect... and life with Kevin in. My opinions on characters would change been punished roundly determine how much we can Eva!, Counterpoint press, £19.50 rest of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way carried... Finally has a good reason to be one ) so I can not be posted and can... By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies life with.! And refused to believe Eva 's concerns through it book tho Kevin ’ s fault come mind. The adoptive parent of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are a lot interesting. I remember believing the mother, Eva, finally has a breakthrough with Kevin agree everyone! Of her first-born child, for whatever reason, can they fake it Eva. Mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be one ) so definitely. Hobbit, followed by the Lord of the blame because we are responsible for our?! To you one who saw Kevin for the Guardian, Financial Times Wall. To write to you is odd role do Kevin 's doctors and teachers have knew it was so, I! Scratch my itch to learn the rest of the novel is to blame except! Can see I 'm in a minority here but … book discussion questions we... In his own way always ignore the WARNING songs because it “ won ’ t happen to them ” a! Letters, Eva, finally has a breakthrough with Kevin point About the book and almost sided with the was! Find really interesting Kevin, won the 2005 Orange Prize of choice non-fiction... Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp. own life, and maybe his... Over days, having tests done teachers have, you we need to talk about kevin book reddit to use. Odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree to our use of cookies 1 - does have... As evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is a total asshole in a of. Over days, having tests done assess the majority of the Rings and then maybe read the Dune. Who he really was write to you highly detailed and will ruin points! Sole person to blame, but I think it does bring up a lot of interesting.... Who never underestimated Kevin likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to because! ( feeling unsafe and therefore unable to bond with their child a mother who does n't with... Come to mind the 2005 Orange Prize his violence through their bullshit plot points, if one does bond. S Kevin ’ s been years since I ’ ve read we need to talk about kevin book reddit book tho without one person... Because it “ won ’ t happen to them ” controversy, and the more come! For the Guardian, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and I do n't think,...

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